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Deep Feelings between Men


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Ersteintrag: 10.02.2008 15:27:27 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 06.04.2009 12:35:55 GMT+02:00
Tante Li meint:
Hi!

I love reading stories about deep feelings between doughty men.
There is a wide range from sincere friendship to erotic relationship like in so different books as "Narziß und Goldmund" (Hermann Hesse) and "Brokeback Mountain" (Annie Proulx).
Could you recommend some of this range to me?

Kind regards

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 10.02.2008 21:46:31 GMT+01:00
Anita Schmidt meint:
Hello aunt Li!
I guess half of my book collection is about relationsship between men. So maybe i can recommend some interesting stories for you. But there is really a wide range. So i fear my books doesn't have the range like the mentioned ones. Nevertheless let me start with some stories which come nearest. One of my favourites is the story of Jim Grimsley "Comfort and Joy". And then the crime stories from Michael Nava with the main actor Henry Rios. There are 6 books with Henry Rios. And these books are so much more than crimes stories. These books are deep views into our souls wether you are gay or not. Wonderfully written!

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 11.02.2008 00:58:55 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 11.02.2008 01:34:14 GMT+01:00
E. W. meint:
Edward Morgan Forster's novels, particularly "Maurice" and "The Longest Journey" and his short story collection "The Life to Come" all contain wonderful stories about relationships between men, the whole range between life-long platonic friendships and casual sexual encounters. Julian Mitchell's drama "Another Country" beautifully describes two young men at a boarding school falling in love with each other. In case you're also interested in cinema, there are some very interesting films on the following list -but beware, this is not just gay themed but rather idiosyncratically mixed. http://www.amazon.de/Etwas-Altes-etwas-Neues-etwas-Schwules-amp-etwas-Skurriles/lm/R2B8X1NGNSBXL1/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_title_full "Get Real" and the German "Sommersturm" are two of my favourite contemporary films on the topic of coming out.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 11.02.2008 23:59:22 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 12.02.2008 00:17:10 GMT+01:00
sista A meint:
Hi,
if your emphasis is on the the "doughty", I'd recommend the "Nightrunner Series" by Lynn Flewelling or - just a little sadder - the "Last Herald Mage" trilogy by Mercedes Lackey. Lots of swords, magic and (sometimes) dragons. And also love. That is, if you are into fantasy literature. Else I have to agree with E.W. - Forster is the best - beautiful language! Also seriously good: "The Charioteer" by Mary Renault. If you mistook "doughty" for "naughty" none of these books will be help you ;-). - Whatever - just check'em out - good reads :-).

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 12.02.2008 17:12:03 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 12.04.2008 13:59:40 GMT+02:00
Tante Li meint:
Thank you for your recommendations, so far, I hope there will be more.
I already ordered two of your suggested books and read into the text of "Comfort and Joy" at amazon. It's my english-level and now on my to-read-list.
I am watching the movie "Another Country" every time it is on TV. It's a good idea to read the novel at last.
Both of the mentioned fantasy trilogies are on my book shelves and read more than once (Alec and Seregil had been in my mind often enough).
And I prefer doughty men to naughty boys. ;-)

Please gimme more!

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 13.02.2008 14:22:59 GMT+01:00
sista A meint:
Hi,

I just thought of something else. If you like fantasy, you might enjoy the Smoke-Series by Tanya Huff (Smoke and Shadows, Smoke and Mirrors and Smoke and Ashes), though it is urban fantasy, so less swords, more daytime television. The main character is gay, which is about the only thing that is not a problem (quite refreshing, if you ask me) and the books are very, very funny. I like them a lot.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 15.02.2008 19:03:50 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 15.02.2008 19:05:35 GMT+01:00
Tante Li meint:
@sista A
I liked Anne Rice's vampire novels but I am not so sure about this Smoke-Series.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 18.02.2008 11:50:31 GMT+01:00
Hi!
Maybe you'd like to check out M.J.Pearson. I think she's great. Her first book: Price of Temptation hasn't been that good in my opinion, but her second one: "Discreet young gentleman" was wonderfully written. In both the main characters are gay - although one of the heroes doesn't know that before he meets the other one. It's really great.
If you're into manga, just check out Yoshinaga. She's great, has some historical manga and really wonderful stories. Her drawings are scetchy, but they convey a whole range of emotions. :)
I am also always curious for this topic.
Maybe the Wraeththu might be a good read for you, also. (Author: Storm Constantine)
Have fun!

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 18.02.2008 12:24:27 GMT+01:00
inikuya meint:
I agree with sista A's tip - the Nightrunner Series is really recommendable. If you like this series, with the magic and the horses and that sense of a road trip you get, you may also enjoy C.S. Friedman's Coldfire trilogy. It's one of my all time favorites. =D (The relationship between the two main male characters is not an erotic one, but they're bound on a much deeper level. It's absolutely beautiful.)

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 23.02.2008 15:36:17 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 23.02.2008 17:27:56 GMT+01:00
Tante Li meint:
@Julia Boonfate
Thanks! :-)
I could recommend the Yaoi-Manga "... but, I'm your teacher." by Row Takakura. It's hot stuff and nicely drawn.
But I prefer the full text stories without pictures to create my private movie in my head.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 01.03.2008 17:02:28 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 01.03.2008 22:08:56 GMT+01:00
sista A meint:
Hi Tante Li,

apart from some obvious creature-of-the-night clichés the Smoke books don't have anything in common with Anne Rice. I recommend them because of the highly likeable characters and the self-deprecating humour, something in which Anne Rice imho not really excels (Louis is such a whining wimp - I tried to re-read "Interview with a vampire" and simply couldn't! - Okay, maybe I overdosed on Anne Rice novels ;-), but still...). I found you an excerpt so you can judge for yourself - thanks, Sherlock Google.
http://ebooks.palm.com/servlet/mw?t=book_excerpt&bookid=34602&si=60

But anyway, dusting my shelves I found a classic: "The Catch Trap" by Marion Zimmer Bradley. It's about two trapeze artists, their love, life and work together, set in the very conservative America of the 1940s and 50s. Unfortunately it seems pretty hard to get these days. But it's a very nice book and if you ever stumble across it for a reasonable price, buy it.

Also by Marion Zimmer Bradley "Heritage of Hastur" and "Sharra's Exile" (available together in one edition:Heritage and Exile) which are set in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover universe. You can read some decent customer reviews here:
http://www.amazon.com/Heritage-Hastur-Darkover-Marion-Bradley/dp/0886774136
The books belong together and I always liked them very much. And don't worry, the Darkover novels really don't need to be read in chronological order. I think I started with these two as well.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 03.03.2008 17:55:11 GMT+01:00
Moni meint:
Do you read just englisch, or also german?
If you read just English: I loved the "Only the Ring finger knows" - Novels.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 05.03.2008 16:02:23 GMT+01:00
Jenny meint:
What about the stories by Thomas Mann? A lot of them are about special friendships between men.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 05.03.2008 21:26:21 GMT+01:00
E. W. meint:
"The Charioteer" by Mary Renault is well worth reading. It's the story of conscientious objectors during WW2, and has many intriguing characters.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 08.03.2008 10:01:23 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 08.03.2008 11:55:19 GMT+01:00
Tante Li meint:
@Midnight + Jenny
Natürlich lese ich auch deutsche Bücher und einige Sachen von Thomas Mann, wie z.B. "Der Tod in Venedig" oder "Tonio Kröger" habe ich auch gelesen. Obschon mich die Romane und Tagebücher seines Sohnes mehr interessieren, nicht nur weil Klaus Mann sehr viel offener mit seiner Homosexualität umgeht, sondern auch weil er als "Kind dieser Zeit" einen ganz eigenen Blick auf die gesellschaftlichen Verhältnisse und politischen Geschehnisse im Deutschland der Vorkriegsjahre und als Emigrant hatte.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 08.03.2008 12:51:01 GMT+01:00
Janis T meint:
If you like some romantic funny gay movie "Latter Days" should be on top of the list, cause it's one on of the many films, which has a happy end!
I'm reading more same-sex-topic mangas so my only advice on books may be Oscar Wilde's "Teleny", but I think that's nothing new for you... It's not that funny, it's more thoughtful and depressing, but that's Oscar Wilde! Not everyones taste, but I enjoyed it not only one time

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 09.03.2008 18:10:12 GMT+01:00
E. W. meint:
@TinaBina: Are you sure "Teleny" was written by Oscar Wilde?
And I couldn't recommend "Latter Days" with a clear conscience. One of the most superficial gay films that I have ever seen. Yes, it does have a happy ending, but as you say yourself, so have many other, superior films.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 10.03.2008 13:03:47 GMT+01:00
booky77 meint:
auntie grony:
I used to be an enthusiastic SF-fan decades ago. I had a paralel family - the Hasturs. Then I read
"The Catch Trap" (in German) and were even more impressed by Marion Zimmer Bradley. I`m that
thankful knowing this wonderful story still woreshipped. I`ll keep my German copy well looked after.
(At those times my English was even more poor than it is now and so -there was no chance to read all these overwhelming stories in English. But if one of you is on this track, please do, it is worth it!!!!)

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 10.03.2008 20:30:49 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 11.03.2008 10:31:24 GMT+01:00
Tante Li meint:
@sista A + Susanne Gronberg

Gerade habe ich "Heritage and Exile" zuende gelesen und würde gern noch ein wenig mehr Zeit mit Regis und Danilo verbringen. Könnt Ihr mir sagen, in welchem Roman ich die beiden wiederfinde? Die vielen chronologisch durcheinander geschriebenen Darkover-Romane sind ja etwas verwirrend. (Auch wenn ich es etwas enttäuschend fand, dass Marion Zimmer Bradley dem Männerpaar nicht einmal einen einzigen leidenschaftlichen Kuss gönnt.)

"Trapez" hat mich auch gleich so begeistert als ich es von meiner Schwester ausgeliehen bekam, dass ich mich gleich nach Beendigung des Romans auf die Suche nach dem englischen Original ("The Catch Trap") gemacht habe und es glücklicherweise über einen Amazon-Marketplace-Anbieter bestellen konnte (wurde aus Kalifornien geliefert!).

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 11.03.2008 20:46:37 GMT+01:00
aldebaran1977 meint:
There are a lot of interesting books and films in this thread and a few of those I haven`t heard about before. So thanks for starting this discussion.

I also want to contribute:

My all-time favourite film has to be "The Crying Game" which everyone interested in your chosen topic should watch. I also enjoyed the film "La Mala Education - Bad Education".

My favourite book series of all time is Robin Hobb`s Fitz and Fool trilogies (There are three: The Assassins Trilogy, The Live Ship Trader`s trilogy and the Fool`s trilogy). The first and the last trilogy show the deep friendship (and love) between the two male main characters in such a heart-achingly beautiful way!

The best yaoi Manga series I know of, is "Fake" which encompasses 7 books.

I haven`t read this book yet, but as it is one of a kind and sounds really interesting, you might want to check out "Hero" by Perry Moore who also maintains a web site where he details everything known about Marvel super hero characters which have been gay, lesbian, bi etc.

I also loved E.M.Forsters Maurice, "Latter Days", "Sommersturm" and many others that have been named before.

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 11.03.2008 21:26:29 GMT+01:00
[Vom Autor gelöscht am 11.03.2008 22:07:15 GMT+01:00]

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 16.03.2008 18:09:34 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 16.03.2008 18:10:39 GMT+01:00
julia141622 meint:
Tolle Bücher zu dem Thema, die hier noch nicht genannt wurden, sind: "Die Mitte der Welt" von Andreas Steinhöfel, "Der Irrläufer" von Gudmund Vindland (auch der Nachfolgeband "Sternschnuppen"), "Eine Wohnung mitten in der Stadt" von Stephan Niederwieser und "The lost language of Cranes" von David Leavitt. Wenn du Historisches magst, könnte dir auch "Der König von Assur" von Jutta Ahrens gefallen. Ach ja, und "Bruder" von Ted van Lieshout ist auch noch klasse, auch wenn es ein Jugendbuch ist.

So, und jetzt gehe ich mir mal eure Tipps näher anschauen. :-)

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 18.03.2008 21:49:22 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 19.03.2008 19:41:37 GMT+01:00
sista A meint:
Hello Tante Li,

Regis and Danilo are in a couple of other Darkover books but as far as I remember never together as main characters and their relationship is only hinted at. Very disappointing if you've sort of fallen in love with the characters. They are definitely in "The World Wreckers", which is interesting in the way it deals with gender identity but written way before "Heritage" and a little off-topic for this discussion. But if you missed "the kiss" - and didn't we all! - here is a short story that MZB wrote as a sort of bridge between "Heritage of Hastur" and "Sharra's Exile". Apparently she thought there was something missing there, too:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8bb0e3b2-d819-444a-98ab-378883c64f1e/Marion-Zimmer-Bradley---[Darkover]---The-Shadow
(I so do love the internet! I knew there was a collection of short stories with this one in it sitting in my bookshelf and it took me all of five minutes to find it online after I found out its name!).
But your mentioning the missing kiss reminded me of something that is also not quite the answer to the original question but very interesting nonetheless, namely "The Celluloid Closet" which is a marvelous documentary film about the role of gay and lesbian characters in the history of Hollywood movies. Very often sobering and saddening but also highly entertaining and informative. And nobody else will tell you about the gay subtext in "Ben Hur"!

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 19.03.2008 13:00:49 GMT+01:00
E. W. meint:
It makes me sad that somebody seems to be sabotaging this Forum and giving "unhelpful" ticks to every contribution of this thread, regardless of quality. Do we have a homophobe troll among us, or just someone who's bored?

Antwort auf einen früheren Beitrag vom 19.03.2008 20:00:31 GMT+01:00
Zuletzt vom Autor geändert am 19.03.2008 20:04:22 GMT+01:00
Tante Li meint:
@E.W.
Where is the troll?
*lookingoutforabigshape*

The last Troll I saw was the one in "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" and I bet he was not even intelligent enough to be homophobe.
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