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Argument Without End: In Search of Answers to the Vietnam Tragedy
 
 
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Argument Without End: In Search of Answers to the Vietnam Tragedy [Englisch] [Taschenbuch]

Robert S. McNamara , James G. Blight , Robert K. Brigham
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Produktinformation

  • Taschenbuch: 512 Seiten
  • Verlag: PublicAffairs; Auflage: New edition (28. April 2000)
  • Sprache: Englisch
  • ISBN-10: 1891620878
  • ISBN-13: 978-1891620874
  • Größe und/oder Gewicht: 22,9 x 15,2 x 2,9 cm
  • Durchschnittliche Kundenbewertung: 2.6 von 5 Sternen  Alle Rezensionen anzeigen (12 Kundenrezensionen)
  • Amazon Bestseller-Rang: Nr. 686.363 in Englische Bücher (Siehe Top 100 in Englische Bücher)
  • Komplettes Inhaltsverzeichnis ansehen

Produktbeschreibungen

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Between 1995 and 1998, Robert S. McNamara led a series of blunt conversations between American and Vietnamese scholars and officials. "The discussions were frank and tough throughout, as befits the first-ever discussion by former enemies of this tragic war," writes McNamara, author of the controversial bestseller In Retrospect and the U.S. secretary of defense from 1961 to 1968. "Had this dialogue occurred in real time, rather than in retrospect, I believe the tragedy could have been prevented." That's probably an overstatement, but it's a useful starting point for this inquiry, in which many contributors probe the causes of the war and try to draw lessons from them.

The structure of Argument Without End is unconventional, with McNamara writing introductions and conclusions to most of the chapters, which sometimes read like excerpts of transcripts and often like pieces of analytical history. Readers will get the sense of observing a graduate-level seminar on the war, with some of its most knowledgeable participants and critics making presentations. The result is a provocative text eager to challenge assumptions. McNamara's presence hangs over everything--this really is his book, despite the numerous coauthors sharing credit--and his sense of optimism is eerie. "Both Hanoi and Washington could have accomplished their purposes without the appalling loss of life," he writes. A statement like that shows 20/20 hindsight, yet it's an awfully candid remark from a man who had much to do with America's humiliation in Southeast Asia. This is an important contribution to our understanding of that terrible conflict. --John J. Miller -- Dieser Text bezieht sich auf eine vergriffene oder nicht verfügbare Ausgabe dieses Titels.

From Booklist

Former Defense Secretary McNamara received as much criticism as praise for In Retrospect (1995), his effort to understand Vietnam. But his quest has not ended. Over the last several years, McNamara has participated in meetings of U.S. and Vietnamese leaders and military figures from the '60s as well as contemporary scholars on the war, struggling to identify and clarify "missed opportunities, either for avoiding war before it started or for terminating it before it had run its course." (The Cuban missile crisis was subjected to a similar process.) The Americans came to Hanoi with five issues: the mind-sets of the two nations in 1961; the potential of taking a neutral position; escalation of the war from 1961 to 1965; negotiating initiatives, 1965^-67; and the possibility of a military victory for the U.S. A sixth issue was added at the Vietnamese's insistence: Washington's and Hanoi's missed opportunities to prevent war between 1945 and 1960. This book takes up these subjects by summarizing the views of each nation on the issue and then providing excerpts from the dialogues. Each chapter reveals key misunderstandings and miscommunications; in a final chapter, McNamara summarizes lessons the U.S. must learn for the future. A vital source of insights on history; an appropriate acquisition for all libraries. Mary Carroll -- Dieser Text bezieht sich auf eine vergriffene oder nicht verfügbare Ausgabe dieses Titels.

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Einleitungssatz
"The Vietnam War, with which I was personally involved for more than seven years as U.S. secretary of defense (1961-1968), was among the bloodiest in all of human history." Lesen Sie die erste Seite
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Nothing new 4. Januar 2000
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When In Retrospect first came out, some of the people at the college where I teach came up to me and said: "Did you hear? McNamara's published a book and he says the Vietnam War was all a mistake!" Whoa - talk about your late-breaking news! Still, I suppose hearing those sentiments from the highest levels imparts a certain power to them that us lowly grunts could never hope to possess - but I think I recall saying "this is a big mistake" on my first patrol (I served in 'Nam in '68-'69).

The rub, of course, comes when we try to figure out WHY it was a mistake, and it is here that McNamara can give us something truly significant. Does he? I think that he does, but what he has to give us has been dished up many times before.

Apparently realizing that he hadn't provided those answers the war requires in In Retrospect, McNamara instituted a series of conferences between policy makers active during the "McNamara Years", from the U.S. and North Vietnam McNamara's stated goal is to search for "lost opportunities. Were there ways to avoid U.S. entanglement; or, having become entangled, were there ways for the U.S. to disengage before so many lives were lost? McNamara's idea here is to find those lost opportunities and lay them before the public.

So, it was with excitement that I read this book - maybe, finally, McNamara will come clean. And come clean he does, though not in the way he expects.

I knew I would have a different reaction to this book when I read how shocked McNamara was to learn the North Vietnamese side of the argument wanted to start in 1945 in the search for missed opportunities. McNamara's original intent was to limit discussion to the years 1961 - 1967; his years as Secretary of Defense. Here we have a sense of the man's over-arching ego; nothing important could have occurred before or after those dates. It is simply beyond my comprehension how the so-called "best and brightest" could be surprised at the date of 1945. For those of you who don't know, that's the date when the Vietnamese, under Ho Chi Minh, declared themselves independent of France, using words from the U.S. Declaration of Independence and the French Declaration on the Rights of Man. That is the date that Baodai, the last emperor of Vietnam, formally abdicated his throne and anointed Ho Chi Minh as his successor. That is the date when Ho Chi Minh made direct appeals to Pres. Truman to ensure the rights of the Vietnamese were respected. It is a date that is no secret now, and wasn't then.

How, then, could the chief architect of American policy towards Vietnam be so awesomely ignorant of such an important starting point? The answer to that question is one of the lessons one might draw from the war: U.S. policy makers had no interest in Vietnam per se. It was merely a stage, upon which the righteous Americans would meet and defeat the forces of "the Evil Empire". The McNamaras and the Rusks and the Rostows felt no need to learn anything about their potential adversary - to our ultimate sorrow. Know Thy Enemy. That lesson is nothing new; applied to this specific war, one can find it in Fire in the Lake, Frances FitzGerald's excellent work about the war published in 1971. What is new is McNamara's bald admission that he really had no interest in learning about the Vietnamese, nor did anyone else in the American administrations.

Another interesting part of the book is McNamara's complete lack of understanding at the refusal of the North Vietnamese to negotiate while we were bombing them. Despite the numerous lessons about the failure of strategic bombing to shorten wars and "force" the enemy to the negotiating table, America pursued the continued bombing of North Vietnam in order to accomplish those self-same goals. All of this was known to McNamara and his cronies, and yet they allowed the strategic bombing of North Vietnam to be one of the major foci of American policy. And now, thirty years after McNamara's involvement in the war, he still doesn't get it.

I wish to touch on just one more facet of Argument Without End. It includes a chapter by Col. Herbert Schandler and McNamara, entitled "U.S. Military Victory in Vietnam: A Dangerous Illusion?" Most of the chapter was written by Schandler, who did his time in 'Nam in the infantry. The answer to the rhetorical question posed in the title is, Yes - a U.S. military victory in Vietnam is and was a dangerous illusion. I strongly agree with that answer, and I'm glad this chapter is in the book. But, dollars to doughnuts, this chapter won't shut up those deluded folks who think "we could've won if only the military had been allowed to win". This is because Schandler never really answers those critics who contend that the military had its hands tied in Vietnam. This is too bad, because the answer is not all that difficult to comprehend. If the military had done exactly as it pleased in Vietnam, we still would have lost. Without the support of the people we were supposed to help, there was no hope. Herein lies another lesson from the war: if we aren't true to our democratic principles in our foreign policy, our foreign policy will fail. We pontificate at great length about "self-determination", but we sure didn't allow it in Vietnam.

In the end, these two books show Robert Strange McNamara to be not very bright - certainly not the best. They show a man steeped in his own arrogance, and that arrogance in him and those around him cost thousands of American lives and millions of Vietnamese lives. But give the man credit, he doesn't flinch from laying it all before us - even if he doesn't complete understand exactly what it is he's telling us.

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McNamara's "Argument Without End--" will not stand the test of time. Key facts are ignored. Others distorted. Readers will not perceive McNamara's persistent effort to re write history unless they read "Dereliction of Duty", "The Wrong War" or "Once Upon a Distant War". An objective analysis by informed authors reveals Johnson initiated the build up of arms soon after Kennedy took office. He purposefully triggered the Tonkin Gulf incident to justify retaliatory strikes. He lied, not only to Congress & the nation, he lied to JCS members as well. Significant facts are left out or disguised. McNamara was Johnson's tool. Not merely a pawn. McNamara's footprints are found on each step of that tortuous journey into Vietnam. McNamara went to Vietnam with Johnson during Kennedy's first year in office. They listened but did not hear. They looked but did not see. They crystallized their battle plan before arriving in Vietnam. They did not consult with Vietnam's leaders. They sent combat troops in without Diem's concurrence. The harsh reality of war was of no consequence. No national security risk at stake? They created one. How did Johnson & McNamara bypass historical lessons learned in Korea and reluctance by military leaders to a ground war in Asia? Relegate the Joint Chiefs of Staff to insignificance. Set up a civilian cadre of 'experts' as Johnson's personal War Room. Military advice was perceived as a threat & therefore ignored. As SECDEF McNamara was the president's first & closest advisor on all military matters. He insulating the president from JCS members. Lying to both sides McNamara conceived his 'battle plan' for stalemate by statistics. No need for a wining strategy. Just extend Johnson's intimidating tactics to Ho Chi Minh & General Giap. That would be sufficient. A winning strategy would have been detrimental to Johnson's domestic political agenda. Adroit reshuffling of the ambassador & senior military officers in Vietnam insured 'team' members were in place. Acquiescent 'team' players General Johnson & later Wheeler were at the helm as JCS Chairman. Other members were silenced by deception, lies & intimidation. JCS members remained silent in '64 when confronted with justification for resignation. Instead, General Greene, USMC lied to Congress in support of Johnson's military budget & strategy. Greene committed a breach of trust to his oath of office. He was not alone. Others did so silently by allowing a renegade president to thrust the nation into war for political reasons. To win an election. One JCS member with courage & integrity should have spoken out. He could have turned the tragedy around or alerted the nation to the lies, deceit & dastardly deeds unfolding. JCS members assert resigning was not an effective or viable course of action. Their reasoning is based on the assumption one dissenting officer would make no difference. That flawed logic fails to perceive the awesome power it leaves in the hands of those who wield political & military power with arrogance, as Johnson did. Johnson used the same intimidating tactics on military leaders he found effective as a congressional leader. He secured support by threat. He silenced all opposition. JCS members had ample reason to challenge Johnson's muddled strategy from the outset. The situation demanded a full blown debate before acts of war were carried out. JCS remained silent. McNamara made sure Johnson's lies & deceit were kept 'in house' by limiting access to key strategy meetings to the JCS Chairman only. Silence by JCS members at that crucial time makes a mockery of the courage deemed necessary to win in combat. Soft headed reasoning was clearly evident by JCS members in allowing a failed strategy and secret build up long before combat troops were publicly committed to Vietnam. The nations military forces were left swinging in the wind for ten years before driven to defeat morally, spiritually, strategically & tactically. Defeat was predictable long before the charade began. 'There are none so blind as those who will not see.' How many more books will McNamara write before the farce he weaves in his effort to rewrite history becomes evident to the public? McNamara will not obliterate the harsh reality of the Vietnam War. He played a key roll in the tragedy he now tries to disguise with additional lies & deceit. McNamara's "Search for Answers to the Vietnam Tragedy", fails to provide the soul searching answers it deserves. A candid revelation would reveal the greater tragedy. Vietnam was not only the 'Wrong War', it was initiated for domestic political advantage by an arrogant president. To win an election. That is why there was no winning strategy. Because the war & reasons given for it were not the objective. McNamara was a dominant figure in the conception, lies & deceit which led to the tragedy. An accurate acknowledgement of his part in The Greater Tragedy may restore a fragment of his credibility. This book does not.
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I don't know if it is possible for anyone who was so close to the events to have an unbiased opinion. I don't claim that.

But there are points of history that can be discussed. If one examines the Vietnamese public reaction to the fall of Diem when a true patriotism for the South seemed to grow,it is difficult to agree totally with McNamara's conclusions. Also, the ability of the South Vietnamese to stand up in battle in 1972 was not fully acknowledged. Much of the US forces were out of the war by then and they managed to hold back a major offensive.

I have seven books by Duong Dinh Loi about his participation in the war, but I don't think they have been translated or play any part in this book. (Nha Xuat Ban Troi Nam, Box 1075, Bellaire, Texas 77402) This would address the argument about if the war could have been won or not. The real question should have been if we wanted to pay the cost of winning the war. In my opinion, we did not. I also think it was too high. I thought it appropriate that many identified themselves as "anti-Vietnam" rather than "anti-war." For Vietnam paid much more than we did.

Our real question now, is what sort of relationship do we want with Vietnam? It is a country with good climate, industrious people and a philosophy of life that we could learn from.

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Die neuesten Kundenrezensionen
The Search for a Usable Past
McNamara and Company have undertaken a very formidable task: unraveling the knotted web of grave misunderstanding that layed waste to an entire nation. Lesen Sie weiter...
Am 2. September 1999 veröffentlicht
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
Argument Without End: 'What we have here is a failure to communicate.' Between 1995 and 1998 former Defense Secretary Robert S. Lesen Sie weiter...
Am 20. August 1999 veröffentlicht
Wrong back then; wrong and tedious now
It was a noble cause and a winnable war with the right strategy and tactics. (I served in the US Army in 1966-69 and did a tour in VN in 68-69). Lesen Sie weiter...
Am 8. August 1999 veröffentlicht
McNamera was and is an intellectual and moral coward.
Once again, McNamera talked to the wrong Vietnamese. Thirty years ago, it was Thieu, Ky and the rest of the puppet bandits. Lesen Sie weiter...
Veröffentlicht am 14. Juli 1999 von Steve Stennes at stenness@montelaw.com
McNamara seeks redemption through delusion.
This book is so full of drivel and misinformation that it is difficult to see what value it serves other than to demonstrate why Mr. Lesen Sie weiter...
Veröffentlicht am 1. Juli 1999 von Merle L. Pribbenow
No absolution here.
A synopsis of In Retrospect, McNamara's previous account of his role in the Vietnam war, would be "I didn't know, nobody told me. Lesen Sie weiter...
Am 17. Juni 1999 veröffentlicht
Bad.
Robert McNamara is still looking for forgiveness for the unforgivable. He continues to insist that what was known to many at the time, is new information. Lesen Sie weiter...
Am 15. Juni 1999 veröffentlicht
an important sequel
Read this then go on to "Stolen Valor"(1998),some of continuing (bad) legacy for Vietnam Vets, the real costs of that war are still coming in.
Am 10. Mai 1999 veröffentlicht
A most revealing book about the Vietnamese War.
The heart of this book lies in transcripts of important exchanges between high level Vietnamese and American officials, who conducted the Vietnamese War, about lost opportunities... Lesen Sie weiter...
Am 9. April 1999 veröffentlicht
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